The Leader for a New Era in Professional Martial Arts
Exclusive Interview: John Graden (CEO of NAPMA)
Written by Hersh Sandhoo
Appeared in Webmation's MAinsider Newsletter February 2003

John Graden is arguably the most important martial arts leader to emerge in the past decade. His National Association of Professional Martial Artists (NAPMA) has enjoyed unprecedented cross-style success and influence. His Martial Arts Professional magazine, with its full color, glossy presentation and biting commentary was instantly a must read within the industry. It has been often said that NAPMA defined the industry with it association, publications, and popular World Conference. NAPMA, Martial Arts Professional and the World Conference have all set new standards of quality. To no ones surprise, these are standards that have created inspiration, resentment and lots of imitation. Despite his success, it seems that Graden has a bit of a problem sitting still.

In less than 18 months, his IKON line of upper-end equipment has established itself as a powerful brand with distributors in six countries. Still, at heart, Graden, 41, is far more of an information-based educator than a product pusher. His latest project, a niche book publishing company, shows great promise in its already impressive line up of titles. Of course, with John Graden, it's dangerous to say, "latest project." So let's just say latest as of August 21, 2002 when I interviewed him.

WM: John, you've had a tremendous amount of success in your life. You were a successful competitor, coach, school owner, author, publisher, television host, and the founder of NAPMA, ACMA, and IKON Gear. What principles do you feel have led to your success?

John Graden: I am compelled to follow through on an idea. The world is full of great starters; it is not full of great finishers. To me, it's truly the last 10 to 15 percent of any project that separates, what I call, the best of us from the rest of us. If I have an idea and I sit on it and it gels in me, it drives me nuts if I don't follow through on it. It is like an itch I can't get rid of. That is where things like ACMA and NAPMA which on paper looked like dangerous, high-risk crazy things to do, I did not see it as being a risk at all. To me the risk was just leaving them as a dream and not executing. I just saw them as being the next steps for me and I also continually have to challenge myself. I will get bored easily and that often gets me thinking about what I want to do next.

WM: What is the hardest obstacle you have had to face on a professional level?

John Graden: Ignorance, and I don't mean ignorance in a derogatory way. Everyone is ignorant, just in different subjects. My mission is of education. It is one of trying to improve the most important aspect of a martial art school, and that is the interaction between the instructor and the student. There is nothing more important than that contact. That is where the rubber meets the road, to use a tired phrase. So, when I say ignorance, part of my battle, part of our battle, has always been to help school owners first recognize that it is okay to need the help. And that is the first of four levels of learning. The first stage is unconscious incompetence. Unconscious incompetence means you don't know really the mistakes you are making, but you don't know you are making mistakes. You don't know what you don't know. That is the first level we faced in 1994 when we launched NAPMA and I wrote my book Black Belt Management. Each day we deal with people in this stage. Some of whom will be there forever. That is still is a huge battle. There is a large contingent of our field that feels that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing even though they still only have 40 students after 20 years.

The second stage is conscious incompetence. This is when we can actually begin to help somebody. This when you become aware of your specific areas of weakness. For instance, you may discover that you really don't do a good job of creating ads for your school. You always thought you were good at it. That's the first level. You are unaware that you lack skill in this area. The second level is that you learn something from one of our programs you say, "Man. That makes total sense. I'm way off base here." Now you are aware or conscious of the area you are weak in.

The third level is conscious competence that means I know what to do, I can do it correctly, but I have think to about doing it. It is not natural to me. It is like a brown belt sparring. Maybe you are used to the old way of barking orders at students, and are working to improve your communication skills. You're getting better at it, but it's not second nature yet.

And the final level where you want to get to in your professional life and your relationship life of course is unconscious competence, and that is where as Bruce Lee once said about a punch, I didn't punch you, you forced me to punch you. In other words as soon as your elbow comes up I can not help it, I just punch you and that is where you want to be where everything is running on autopilot. It's as though your old habits are foreign to you anymore. You have transformed as a leader and educator.

WM: How have you been trying to overcome that problem?

John Graden: By a very important principle and this is a critical strategy that I have used for many years, and it's a martial arts based strategy. It is what I call align and redirect. I think the mistake a lot of people who have attempted to do what I do, before and after me, was that there was a big emphasis from them on earning money and for most martial artists money has never been a motivating force.

I think everyone wants to have more money and if anybody tells you they don't is lying to you. We need money in a western society. But, if you say to the martial artists that if you do this and that you will earn more money. A large contingent of our audience is immediately going to be turned off. A martial artist is by definition someone someone who sacrifices. What is the biggest sacrifice you can give? It's to lay down your life for the good of others. That is the very nature of the word martial, which of course is military. The second word, arts, also carries with it a sense of sacrifice and denial of worldly goods. We all know the image of the starving artist. So, while there tends to be confusion about money in society in general, it seems to be exacerbated in the martial arts community

It is natural for many people in all walks of life to have negative associations with money. As the old saying goes money is the root of all evil and the only person who really has a lot of money is somebody who sold their soul or stepped on people to get where he is. Well none of that is true and even that quote is wrong. The quote is actually; the love of money is the root of all evil. So I made the conscious decision early in my career as a business educational leader that money was not going to be the focus of what we taught. Money was going to be a byproduct of having a better experience for the student, so now I am aligning with the values of my audience.

I am a martial artist. I have done a lot of things, I don't think I was ever the greatest at any of them, but I was pretty dang good at a lot of them. So these guys know that when I stood on stage and talked to them about the experience of being a martial art school owner, teacher, fighter, forms technician, they knew I really knew what I was talking about. That is the critical alignment aspect communication. I was aligning with their values. Then I can redirect them especially when I can show them the path that I have taken and that I too was able to make some adjustments and the result has been a huge success for me.

WM: In your book, How to Operate a Successful Martial Art School, you state that time management is the most important skill that school owners need to develop. What are you currently doing to manage your professional and personal life? Do you find it hard to make the distinction between the two?

John Graden: As a school owner, I had one life-martial arts. There was no personal life. Every girlfriend I had was a student or someone involved in the school. I dominated her life and mine with the exception of my wife, who had never even been in a martial arts school. I was 24/7 a martial artist. I lived, breathed it, and ate it. When people would come to my house, it was always my black belts, my buddies instead of sitting around watching "Cheers"; we would watch old fight tapes.

That went on for the 19-years that I taught professionally until one day I was running a black belt exam and I was bored to tears. Then my brothers just showed up with three tickets to a spring training baseball game. The game started in 45 minutes. Rather than focusing on this exam and the great experience the students were having, I was thinking how soon could I get out of here to go see the baseball game. I knew at the point my teaching career had to come to end because I was no longer challenged by it.

I am always doing a lot of studying. I felt my skills would not develop if I stayed in the arena of running a local school. I was not challenging the skills I wanted to develop because I knew I could be a good communicator and was not reaching a big enough audience. I knew I had a lot more in me that the schools could allow to grow.

So, by moving into a more conventional business matrix in launching NAPMA and Martial Arts Professional magazine, I was forced then to face the fact that I had a business and a personal life. That is the first time I had a professional life and a personal life.

Running a school is hard, hard work, but it's also easy because you are so absorbed in the process and so passionate about the subject, there is little you would rather be doing. I had to force myself out of that comfort zone to grow.

Now I have a different philosophy of doing things because I am in a different position and a successful entrepreneurial at least by today's standards of net worth and all that kind of stuff. Now I have three kinds of days. I have a focused day where I get up and all I do all day is write, plan, work with the troops. Things that are directly going to affect the future of my company, my companies as I have more than one. These days are devoted solely to high return, high impact activity. This is most often Monday, Tuesday and Thursday, though it can change from week to week.

Then I have a buffer day and these are days where I have to do the stuff we all have to do. There are the things that have to be done but they are not necessarily urgent things, they are just the stuff you have to do in the world of business. Personal finances, organizing, planning, paying bills and such.

And the third kind of day is a free day where I won't even think about NAPMA or anything else business wise. I'll go play golf, I'll play with my son. I'll go out with my wife. I may check in with the office but often I don't because my team is so high caliber that I don't spend time worrying about what is happening at the office. I know damn well they are doing a great job. It's reflected in our meetings, our reports and the growth I see.

I used to be accused of being a workaholic during the years I was running schools and during the first four or five years of NAPMA. I was not being a work alcoholic. I had just had set a goal for myself to have absolute freedom in my life and in our society, freedom is purchased with dollars. It is the only way you can get freedom and so I would work 24/7 on things that really counted.

In time though, when I achieved that level of freedom, I backed off from that type of lifestyle because I didn't need to work that way anymore. Here is what I discovered though. In our society, when you are working 24/7 and acting like a work alcoholic, that is smiled upon. It is almost a badge of honor to work long hard hours and be focused totally on work. The reality is that often that such an approach to work can be an excuse to avoid emotional contact. Rather than spending time with your mate, your kids, your wife, and working on the relationship, you are checking email or you are reviewing stuff or you are writing an ad. I have since learned to work at work and live at home. Otherwise, I was going to be a lonely guy.

WM: What about from the martial artists' point of view:

John Graden: The western society as a whole, not just for the martial arts, but this is a reality. Since the beginning of time, man has been taught that if he is the biggest, strongest hunter in the village he will have the most beautiful fertile woman to have children with. Women have always been taught if they work on their beauty skills and they are the most beautiful woman in the village they will have the biggest strongest hunter to take care of them. And that still applies today and that is the very nature of the human species. This goes to the very nature of the male-female relationship and has been since the beginning of time.

You can put us in bigger houses and you can put us in cars but we are still wired the same as the cavemen. Today, however, what often happens to the big strong hunter is that once he gets the big house, and once he gets the beautiful wife, and the children, he doesn't stop working. He is still at the office and over time everything he worked towards obtaining starts to deteriorate. He is more focused on work and winning than living and love. His relationships with his wife, and the spouse and the children are not as good, but damn he has a nice house and a lot of money in the bank. But, he doesn't see his kids; he doesn't show affection to his wife. It's inevitable that, in time, what he really needs in life, the relationships, begin to suffer. His business may be going strong, but his family is falling apart.

I just knew very early in my life that I was not going to live that life. I was going to position myself, and I am really good at positioning myself, I was going to position myself to have the best of both worlds. I would work like a dog to get the resources that would provide me with the freedom I that I want. Then, I would utilize that freedom to spend time with my wife, my child, on a golf course, banging heads in the gym, or working all day but I would be in control of that and that is very important to me.

WM: How hours per week do you spend working?

John Graden: Remember that the mindset of the nine to five worker comes from the introduction of the industrial age. Prior to that, in the agricultural age, you worked from sun up to sun down. Then, with as factories were built, shifts were established to keep the factory humming. Today, we are the technological age or the entrepreneurial age. To me, this again shifts the time perspective. Now you can work when you want and where you want.

No ones' legacy is built upon how many hours he worked. It's built upon the results those efforts created. I'm far more focused on results than hours and I get great results.

WM: Are there areas of your life you trying to improve on?

John Graden: I look forward to moving into an even more independent phase where I am not as reliant on as many as other people. Though I am blessed with the people around me, my goal is to help them achieve their goals and then ride off in the sunset. I don't like to be defined by my profession. For instance, I had a great career as a martial arts instructor and as a fighter and all that, but I don't spend any time on that stuff. To me, that was a career I had for nearly 20-years and I imagine my NAPMA career and all of this will come to end as well. That won't mean NAPMA will come to end. I don't think NAPMA will ever come to an end. I just don't think I will be the guy running it forever. To me it's an entity I began and it will be a career I have and then I will move on to the next career. I do not want to be limited by my profession. I'm very growth and future oriented.

WM: You have said that freedom is something you value the most. Now that you have achieved the financial success to enable you to have that freedom, what is your motivation?

John Graden: To leave the martial arts in a better place than I found it. There is so much great potential in our industry, and it has always suffered from severe short sightedness. It is my experience that the leaders of the martial arts in the first few decades, not across the board, but there has been a sense of protectiveness, of wanting to be the biggest fish in the small little pond. I am not like that. That is why you don't see me on the NAPMA video every month, you don't see me on the cover of my own magazine. Only with the keynote, that is the only time I take a presence in the magazine other than my column.

It is not important that people consider me a star or a martial arts celebrity, which to me is a misnomer. I think the first thing that humbles you about our field is that it extremely small. It is diverse, but it is really small. There is not just that much money altogether in the martial art world, so once you realize that being the biggest fish in this little industry is not that big a deal, it become less important to you and you can focus on the greater good.

That is why I gave away 6,000 ACMA manuals, I could have charged for them. I could have tried to get my investment back but I realized early that this not a manual people are going to run out and buy right away. It is a manual they need, but I know how martial artists think. So I arranged where if people donated twenty dollars to Project Action I would give the manual to them for free.

I am proud of that. It's congruent with my motivation to make the experience of the student in the martial art classroom better than it was a decade ago. I firmly think that is happening as a direct result of our work. That is the only thing that is ever going to help or make us grow as an industry.

Even if you look at things like Cardio Karate or Little Ninjas. These are fantastic programs. I personally would never teach a Cardio Karate class. When I created the name Cardio Karate and we introduced it to the industry in 1996, I knew it was exactly what the market wanted and Billy Blanks proved me right. That doesn't mean that it is something I would do.

I do not formulate NAPMA around my likes and dislikes. I formulate NAPMA around what the market needs, it is not my job to tell the market what it needs, it will tell me, and I listen very well. I would never teach a Little Ninjas class. You would have to rake me over coals to teach little preschoolers. I used to get into arguments with parents and my black belts, because I knew that if I started a preschool class, the instructor was going to call in sick one day. Then, I would have to come in and teach that class and there is no way you want John Graden teaching a little preschool class. So I am not interested in creating NAPMA so the whole world does things that I like. If that were the case we'd do forms and kickbox all class every class.

I created NAPMA and ACMA so the martial arts world has the tools to keep people interested in their schools and to attract more people to them. So they key is taking your ego out of it and working towards the greater good. The greater good to me is improving the students' experience in the school.

WM: What projects are you focusing on at the moment?

John Graden: I currently run NAPMA, the ACMA, IKON, which is our gear company that has been gangbusters, Martial Arts Professional magazine, and I just started a book publishing company, ITBD International. ITBD will publish the four books I'm working on and those of others. For instance, Joe Lewis' first book will be an ITBD publication. This is the first book Joe Lewis has done. For over 30-years many people have asked him to do books. He is doing it with ITBD and it is about his experiences with Bruce Lee.

I read every chapter as it is completed; it is the most fascinating material on Bruce Lee that anyone has ever written. Joe spends a lot of time on what Bruce taught him that worked what didn't work. Best of all, he demonstrates how to make what worked work for you.

So you have the greatest fighter in history with the greatest teacher in history and I think it will be the greatest martial book in history. www.martialartsbookstore.com will be the site for ITBD products.

WM: NAPMA is approaching its 10th anniversary, currently with over 2000 members worldwide, where do you envision it in the next decade?

John Graden: We have had just amazing growth just within the last 6 months. We are constantly upgrading, that is the key; the program never looks from one year like it did before. The basic elements are the same but it just keeps getting better.

To answer your question, my goal when someone wants to open a school, the accepted and expected process will be that you get your black belt, you get certified by the ACMA, you join NAPMA. 1 - 2 - 3. It won't be required by the government, it will just be the expected and accepted standard and because its all about education.

That is all we are and that is not to make me rich or anything but I think that is where it will go. That is where I am confident it will end up. NAPMA will have a lot of reincarnations - it will not always be a $99 a month program.

There will be a variety of programs for NAPMA. We are starting a program where students can join in the 2nd half of this year. We'll also have programs that are ideal for part-time instructors who just want to stay connected to the largest professional association in the world for martial artists.

NAPMA is a professional organization the distinction is that it is an association of professionals, we are not involved with the government or for regulation, we are pretty anti-regulation if than anything. We are all about education.

WM: Can you briefly describe what ACMA is and why school owners will benefit from having their instructors certified by ACMA?

John Graden: The ACMA is a non-style specific, universal instructor education program that consists of a manual, a course and a certification exam through the Cooper Institute in Dallas, Texas. The program is wonderful for all instructors. It will not teach you how to teach a sidekick. It will teach you how to teach a sidekick safely and for different age groups. Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Jhoon Rhee, Jim Graden, Kathy Marlor, Keith Yates, Rob Colasanti and many other high profile instructors have completed the course.

WM: Do you think the government should try and regulate the martial art industry?

John Graden: No. The ACMA is an effort toward self-regulation. Currently in the martial arts there are no educational pre-requisites, I know instructors who have PhDs and Master Degrees and others who have prison records. So, there is no standard to open a school other than getting a business license at the courthouse. So, when there are problems, politicians are forced to react when there are no internal standards. What people forget is that there are more than enough laws on the books to regulate martial arts. People who are going to violate those laws would most likely violate any new law that was introduced. For example, take the Enron scandals, they broke laws and are being punished. Regulation did not stop that.

If someone sexually molests a student, more regulation will not stop it. The current laws are very clear that you will go to prison for such a despicable act, but that doesn't stop it from happening.

WM: What are the top three mistakes school owners make in running their schools?

John Graden: The mistakes school owners make coincide with their current stage of learning. For unconscious incompetence they are not being open minded or receptive to new possibilities. For the second stage, conscious incompetence, being susceptible to the latest fad - school owners should never lose site of why they started. Going back to Cardio. Great program, but not for everyone. Guys who are starting to realize the new possibilities can go overboard with enthusiasm and jump on every new program. That's when you get away from your core values and lose your way. For those who reach the conscious competence stage sometimes they have the desire to expand too quickly. Again, what was fun becomes serious business when you have two schools or too much rent to pay. Finally, for those who have reached the final stage, unconscious competence, the risks are complacency and mismanagement of their money. The money if flowing, so they don't feel they have to be at the school and instead start living the high life. That is a deadly combination. The three most important words are "Save your money."

WM: It has been awhile since your last book on martial art management has been published. What are the biggest changes you have noticed in the industry?

John Graden: The introduction of fitness as a viable profit center and influence. There has been no impact greater than Cardio Karate or Fitness Kickboxing. Billy Blanks confirmed that with Tae Bo and took it to the next level. I would also say the industry as a whole has become grown from fearing, discounting and ignoring new ideas to actively anticipating them.

At the NAPMA World Conference we have introduced so many new trend setting programs such as Cardio Karate, ACMA and realistic self defense which such as Bill Kipp, Krav Magna, and CDT that attendees can't wait to see what is next. Frankly, neither can I.

On the downside, our industry has slipped back into a more fragmented state. I'm confident, however, that the greater good will prevail and we will return to positive progress in that regard.

WM: How important do you feel it is for an average school owner to invest on an online presence?

John Graden: It is essential. I am amazed when school owners brag to me, "I don't even know how to turn a computer on." That is like saying I don't know how to use the telephone. It is the height of ignorance. School owners must accept that the internet and computers are here to stay. They have to educate themselves and stay on top of the technology and their rewards will be immense.

Because I embraced technology, and specifically became a huge fan of Apple and their Macintosh, I have created over $30 million. None of that would have been possible with that edge. As a business owner, your web address is now as important as your phone number in your marketing. In five years, your web address will be far more important than your phone number. Get a good web site and get it now.

WM: When are you happiest?

John Graden: When I am at home with the gate closed playing with my son and wife. We have our own little sanctuary and, if you measure a relationship by the amount of laughter in a household, we must measure pretty high, because we have a lot of fun.

Hersh Sandhoo is the President and CEO of Webmation, leaders in web development and online marketing for the martial arts industry. Mr. Sandhoo, a fourth degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do and Hap Ki Do, has trained for over 13 years.

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