Exclusive Interview: Frank Shamrock
Written by Hersh Sandhoo
Appeared in Webmation's MAinsider April 2003

What can one of the top mixed martial arts fighters in the world tell you about running a business? Plenty. Frank Shamrock has not only dominated inside the ring he runs four successful martial arts businesses, including a school, on top of his grueling workout sessions.


WM: What principles do you follow that have helped lead to your success?

Frank Shamrock: I follow one principle that I work with my fans and my business. I teach people how I want to be treated. I always present myself very professionally and I always take time to give attention to people, ideas, concepts and to keep an open mind about business and how I approach things and people. That really helps me because my life moves very fast being a pseudo celebrity. It helps me slow everything down and give individual time and attention to each situation.

WM: What about on a more professional level as a fighter?

Frank Shamrock: Well its similar. I take the time to study things and read directions and that has really helped me. Studying and putting my ego and other things aside to look at the real issues of techniques and mechanics and who knows what and how to get the knowledge. That and just determination.

WM: What is the hardest obstacle you have had to face on a professional level?

Frank Shamrock: That would be the opposition from people who do not understand the sport and want to label me as business person, or as an athlete, or as a martial artists in that realm they don’t understand. If they want to label me as a fighter or as a meathead it is because they understand what is going on.

WM: How did you overcome it?

Frank Shamrock: It goes back to my basic principle of doing business with people who don’t understand or get it. I try and take a little time to try to get them to get it. I do a little explanation and I also be myself with people and be real which I think translates a lot into how people understand things. If you can associate common and good qualities with a fighter or ultimate fighter it makes it more understandable to people who are nay sayers against the sport and in business as well.

WM: For most school owners time management is a crucial aspect of doing their business, I imagine it has to be the same for you, how do you manage your time? Do you have set schedule or routine? How does that change when you are preparing for a fight?

I have set a routine and schedule that I follow for both my training and my business. Time management is probably the most overlooked thing and the most important thing in business and in training. So juggling those two is crucial and very difficult.

WM: Then you also have to tie in your personal time and social time as well.

Frank Shamrock: Oh, that is very difficult and the other thing that is even more frustrating and difficult is that in order to train properly you need a group of people, so when that group of people gets out of synch with your time then all of your other events and meetings get messed up. I think that is something that martial arts schools and business owners run into a lot with events, promotions and tournaments, so I think managing time is of the essence

WM: What is a typical Frank Shamrock day like?

Frank Shamrock: There are really two days that happen for myself and those days are training for a fight and not training for a fight. When training for a fight I have to add about five hours of training into my normal business day, so that becomes very difficult. As well as I try to get two or more naps in during the day. I get up at 8:30 and I eat, work for a couple hours then go to the gym and train for about 2 hours then I come home and eat, take a nap, then I work for two hours, then I go back to the gym and I workout and then I come home and then I eat and then I usually relax for a couple of hours then I work for another hour and then I eat and then I go and teach class at night. Then after class I go to the gym and I usually do cardiovascular training and then I come home and eat and then I normally work about thirty minutes and then I read for about thirty minutes before I go to bed.

WM: Pretty busy schedule.

Frank Shamrock: Yeah. When I am training for a fight I normally get about two hours of social time a day with my girlfriend or friends or whatever, so my time during fight training is very limited.

WM: And then I guess the only difference between that and not training for a fight is that you don’t have to have such a vigorous training schedule?

Frank Shamrock: Yeah, I don’t have to do five hours of training, it’s normally about two and I don’t need the extra two naps during the day. You know when I go into fight mode as I call it. I basically turn my body from a normal human into a machine and just like going in and filing your files and making your calls and everything else I have to keep the machine up-to-date and up to speed and everything else. So every meal, every nap, every training, every stretching is just as important as every meeting. So unfortunately it has to be done.

WM: Are there any areas in your life that you are trying to improve?

Frank Shamrock: Yeah constantly. I’m trying to improve on my communication skills and by that I mean my communication in my personal life and communication with my business partners. I think communication is key to just about everything. If you can communicate what is going on, or how you feel, or what the problem is then you are that much closer to finding the solution. So the last couple years I have really been working on how to communicate and how to communication not only what I feel but also what I want. You know in a diplomatic and constructive way.

WM: What has been your motivation for success, both generally and with your dominance in Mixed Martial Arts? Is it still the same as when you first started?

Frank Shamrock: I think my motivation is the same for both. I want to win. I want to be successful and I want to win. I am a very competitive person. I enjoy starting projects. I enjoy starting businesses and I enjoy winning in those businesses. I enjoy training, competing and winning in the match. And I also enjoy the process from start to finish because I like to look back at it and look at the accomplishment I did and it spurs me on to do more. So for me it’s kind of a circle. I start a business, it’s a concept, I go from concept to reality. I start functioning, make money, define jobs, I get everybody structured and then I step out and watch the machine run and that is like winning for me.

WM: How involved are you in the business side of things?

Frank Shamrock: Well I have four separate businesses. I oversee all the ones that I’ve started. I am very involved day to day. Most of it is through email and cell phones because I travel so much and I’m so busy but I very good at structuring, delegating responsibility, and then following up so after that point its just a matter of money decisions, you know whatever comes to the bottom line.

WM: Can you tell us a little more about your businesses? What are they?

Frank Shamrock: I have my school, which I would consider the heart of what I do. All I do is go in and teach one class a night Monday through Thursday and then I monitor the books. And that is it.

WM: Is the school structured as a typical martial arts school where you teach children and adults or is it just for the mixed martial arts type of fighting?

Frank Shamrock: The school is structured as a common martial arts school with the majority being kickboxing. I teach the mixed martial arts class. We also have one for kids and one for young adults. Ju Jitsu, kickboxing, girl’s kickboxing, and cardio kickboxing. We have a manager of the gym, who manages everything – signs everybody up and does all that stuff. I am in a position where the only thing I have time for is to teach one class. I understand in order for me to learn more I have to teach and keep the knowledge flow going. So I study and I teach and for me it takes a hour and a half or two hours a night. Maybe an hour a month of up keep to check the books and follow up and keep track of everything.

WM: What about the other businesses?

Frank Shamrock: The second one that we do is a law enforcement training business that is called SODCS. The Science of Officer Defense and Criminal Submission and that one is relatively easy for me. I do once a year instructor certification seminars and a couple events a year traveling and I just monitor the reports that come back from the officers on the field and instructor trainers and make a few appearances a year. Most of the other officers do the work and I go to the big training shows and conventions to find out what techniques are being taught and which laws have changed.

I have a website of course, frankshamrock.com. That one is a little more up keep for me. I do a lot of personal interaction on the website. In that it is content based so that any who is a member can log on and write stuff and I go on as a editor and I edit stories, I post stories I like that people have written and I reply personally and write my own stories. I keep in touch in people that way and I think it is a very powerful tool for self promotion, marketing, and sales. We do a good amount of sales through the website with an online store. And we also use that to promote all the seminars and appearances and stuff that I make as well.

The fourth one would be my main company of Striker Sports, which oversees all of these things but is mainly to manage my time and get me from place to place. As well as to structure the seminars, appearances and events that I attend. You know I probably do about 40 or more events in the mixed martial arts and martial arts community a year.

WM: When your fighting career is over what do you picture yourself doing? Continuing with the businesses you have already established?

Frank Shamrock: Yeah I think I’ll just continue what I am doing. I’ll probably push heavier in the entertainment industry. I have a lot of skills on camera, got a lot of skill in fighting and choreography and in production, so I am also starting another company, an entertainment company and now I am producing my own fights and my own content and distributing it as well. You know eventually my body and desire to get beat up will diminish and I’ll move on to the next thing. Right now it is still something I want to do and it still interests me. I still have the competitive energy out there. It won’t last very long. Unlike most fighters I see where the end is. It is fast approaching for me. There is an end coming fairly soon and I certainly don’t want to ride this thing until I get all broken up and can’t do anything else. I enjoy the competitive edge and I want to win so when the desire goes and the body goes my odds of winning will become less and all I care to do is win, so I’ll just win in something else.

WM: You once stated that if you weren’t a fighter that you would like to have been a teacher. Do you have any plans to work with kids on a more personal level, whether at your school or helping out the community or state or country programs?

Frank Shamrock: I do work with kids in our community. I speak to the kids at the juvenile halls and when I’m on the road making appearances I always stop at the crisis centers and I work with the kids in that way. I do what I can. I had a very rough life. You know I left home when I was 12 years old and grew up as a ward of the state so I understand what that road is about and how hard it is for kids who do not have someone to look to and a mentor or have someone they can see who made it who was on a similar path and that is very fulfilling for myself and I do it for the kids first and foremost but I think it helps me more than it helps them.

WM: You’ve been active in trying to regulate UFC and NHB fighting in general – do you feel that the martial arts industry as a whole needs to be regulated better?

Frank Shamrock: I think it does. I don’t know where it starts and I’ll be honest with you. I really put a lot of energy in helping out the mixed martial arts community and for some reason in the MMA community they don’t have the same morals and guidelines as they do in the martial arts community. It’s a new sport, its been prompted differently, it’s drawn a different fan base. In the martial arts community it is honor, respect, and discipline. In the MMA community that doesn’t really exist as much. So regulating it and helping out the industry has been a very frustrating process for me. You know I think all of the combative sport industries need some sort of guidelines and regulations because otherwise people get taken advantage of, people get hurt, and there is really no one to say you are doing something wrong and there are no consequences. I have seen guys drive 300 miles, sleep in their car, fight for ten minutes with little or no rules and then not even get paid because the promoter just didn’t want to pay him. I do not think that is right. I don’t think people who are giving themselves and making those sacrifices should be treated that way.

WM: Do you think it should be government regulated or it would be better if it was more internal?

Frank Shamrock: I think that internally or an outside source, like a non-profit. My intention was to start a nonprofit, non-bias outside regulation source that could say that is not right or that sounds okay to us. One that didn’t have a vested interest in the fighters or a vested interest in the promotions. I think that is the only way you are going to get a fair shake at this stuff because at every event the promoter is out for the promoter and the fighter is out for the fighter. So there are two separate worlds every single time. I don’t see how you can separate those two. You know if the government gets involved the government is going to be out for the government.

WM: Do you think the martial arts currently provides a good career opportunity for children to aspire too? Especially when compared to other career paths out there?

Frank Shamrock: I think it provides an excellent opportunity and I think more so than a financial or career opportunity it provides the groundwork and foundation for creating other opportunities. If you have the discipline, drive, focus and the guidelines to go in and achieve a black belt or go to competitions that is going to translate into anything else you put it into. I think that is where you see a lot of successful businessmen were martial artists.

The only reason I have been successful is my martial arts experience. For me it turned into a career specifically in competing in martial arts but the reason my other businesses are successful and the reason I’ve been successful in general is all of that training, going to the gym everyday and keeping that regiment. Now for me getting up to work and doing these things is what I do. Where as I think a lot of people that have a different path they never get that. They don’t have the structure. They don’t have that focus. And they are not successful.

WM: How important is the Internet for you and your companies?

Frank Shamrock: The Internet is huge for me. From information gathering to distributing disseminations. We have 2500 members on our website so I interact with those guys directly. All of our customers via the website or through Striker Sports are entered into a database and our biggest contact method is through email. We have everything broken up by state, so if I am going to your state you are going to get an email letting you know that I am coming there to do an appearance or seminar.

We use email marketing for everything. From my press kit to live events. Everything goes via the Internet. It just so fast and so inexpensive, its instantaneous. I can even do it on my laptop driving in a car.

WM: Your website frankshamrock.com is very interactive – fans can post questions, comments, gossip or whatever else is on their mind. What made you decide to have set up the web site that way?

Frank Shamrock: That wasn’t my idea but when the idea was purposed to me I thought it was huge. We get so many new fans so quickly and I touch so many people in my crazy life and all the travel I do. I think if I met a thousand people every weekend for forty weekends. That is an enormous amount of people and you want a way to keep everybody in touch and keep the community growing and keep the energy alive. That is why we went to live content format on the website.

WM: I read an article on the site from a kid in NY who was being terrorized by bully. It must have meant a lot to him that one of his hero’s actually take the time to care and give him personal advice on how to deal with the situation. Another person was saying he was about to jump in a car and drive cross country to train at your gym, but wanted to make sure you were there before he made the trip. How does it feel to know you have that much impact on people’s life?

Some people look at it like it’s a responsibility. To me it’s just a good feeling. I can’t imagine having that when I was in that need because I didn’t have that. I know what all those guys are going through and what they are looking for and what their road is and for me to be in that position I think it just feels great. Some people look at it like it’s a burden. Ugh. I have to stop and talk to this fan and I have to answer the same twenty questions over and over again. I know if I take the time to do it for that one guy, it may change his life, it may change his relationship, may change his future, may keep him from doing wrong, it may make him a better person. It is worth it to me. That is how I give back. I don’t know how I got to this place. All I did is what I supposed to do. Put my nose to the grindstone and study hard. That is all I did.

WM: Are you planning on doing anything else with the site to promote your other projects or yourself?

Frank Shamrock: Yes, we are going to make it a little more interactive. I want to take what we do in our school in the teaching and I want to offer video clips of that on our site and start getting into a little more of the technical aspects of the mixed martial arts. I think there is lot of confusion and there is a big gap between the martial artist and mixed martial artist and I want to try and close that gap with a nice visual presentation and at the same time I want to draw both communities together and try to let everyone know that the morals, rules, and guidelines are there. They are just not practiced by a large number of people. I think the people who are my fans and are drawn to what I do they are the ones who have those same feelings and morals and appreciate that I have the same as well. I think that is where are fan base grows.

Besides the video, we have a picture section that I’m about to break up into different areas. I’ve taken pictures from fans from all around the world and they send me their pictures. So I literally have thousands of pictures from fans around the world. So I am going to make a section called Frank and Fans and I’m going to post all the pictures on the site. Then I’m going to encourage those guys to write in their names so we can put it up there and create a community of people I have met. It is an astronomical amount of people I have met. I have a giant thing of fan mail that I am trying to get caught up on.

I just got one today. From Nathan, a fourth grader at Webster Elementary, in Pepperville, Ohio. He wants me to send him an autograph picture and make out some other thing for him.

WM: What do you enjoy doing in your spare time?

Frank Shamrock: I like to read. I love to hike and be in nature. I like to go to the movies and I leave my house so much and I go on so many trips that one of the best things I like more than anything is to be relaxed and comfortable in my home with friends and family, with my girlfriend and people I care about. And not be out working and sharing, but just be hanging out and relaxing. That is one my biggest things, that and reading. I love to read. I read a novel a week.

WM: What are you reading right now?

Frank Shamrock: Right now I’m reading Eyes of Prey by John Sandford. When I fight I read serial killer books and violent books because I have to trick my brain into getting in that mood that it’s okay to beat someone up because I’m not a violent person.

WM: Have you every thought about going into the WWE?

Frank Shamrock: You know I have thought about it and I’ve been approached by just about everybody. It is a lot of work, much more than I’m doing currently and the payoff, longevity, and amount of injuries you sustain are not worth it.

Ken did WWF for about two and half years and was very successful. He got paid a lot of money, he also did 152 shows a year, I do about 40 events a year, and he broke his leg, his arm, and punctured a lung. He really got messed up. I think that I would rather win the way I want to win. Control my life and career the way I want it to go and touch those people that I want to touch and I think that is a better path for me.

WM: When are you the happiest?

Frank Shamrock: I am the happiest after I have eaten. After I have eaten and when someone express love to me.

For more information on Frank Shamrock and his projects visit:

Official Web Site: www.frankshamrock.com

Hersh Sandhoo is the President and CEO of Webmation, leaders in web development and online marketing for the martial arts industry. Mr. Sandhoo, a fourth degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do and Hap Ki Do, has trained for over 13 years.

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